Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Dec 14, 2015. A number of Cheetahs can be found equipped with the 180 hp O-360, which is available as an STC. There are no STC's for putting a 160HP engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and I've never heard of such an installation. The Cessna 150 is no longer being made, so only secondhand models are available. The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said theFlying Educators usually fly ateconomy cruise and get 115ktsto 120ktsground speed whilethe180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. The 172 is basically the big sister to the 152-it's a nearly identical airframe, just larger in every dimension to hold four people. Its well suite, Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. Cheetahs are faster than Tigers. many destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas. Aero on Demand, a Houston-based club, also operates a Tiger and it is equipped with an engine monitor providing very accurate data. first Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. Visibility is amazing. same friendly, informative place for all things Cessna 172, now with a larger
It was this way even before I did the upgrades. The clubwanted an airplane better suited for cross-country travelandthey settled on the Grumman AA5B Tiger. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. The operational costs of a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller or Cheetah. If you have four people, filling up to the tabs provides 38 gallons of fuel, and you should be fine for most cross-country flights. The Piper's heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly. The Tiger has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 to 138 knots. Grumman AA-5 Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk & Eurocopter AS355 TwinStar at Princeton Airport (39N) - YouTube. Your time savings are going to be marginal if anything. The Cessna 172. Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. The plane was always in a hangar probably a major factor.. I know you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a Tiger. The seats move further forward in the more modern versions of the Cessna 172, but even so, I find it easier to fly the Cessna 150, where everything is within easy reach. The Flying Educators Tiger has a two-axis autopilot so it frequently flies under IFR. Enter your Username and Password to log in. Never seen you, are on the north side of the field? The Cessna 150 is a two-seater aircraft, whereas the Cessna 172 is a lot larger than the Cessna 150, having four seats. She's published several books and articles on all things aviation and is eager to continue sharing her knowledge! Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. Which engine did he install? Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Both of these aircraft are made by Cessna and are fairly similar when it comes to flying. According to Greg, the 115-hpCitabria burned about 5 to 6 gph, making it economical to operate. Indeed, unlike most comparable aircraft, there are no moving parts inside of an AA-5s wingall flap and aileron actuation is achieved via easily accessible torque tubes upon which each control surface pivots. It is such an OWT there's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it. moved! Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. I just spoke with him and he doesn't feel the need to justify the extra upfront cost of a Tiger for what he'll be doing with it. Cheetahs are around 850lbs. It includes a touch-and-go,. Still, I think the additional climb rate of the Tiger makes it a better choice, even if speed is not a major concern. With a fixed-pitch propeller and fixed gear, it is simple to operate. I must admit to being biased here. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots Safety And Warning . The propulsion system of the Cheetah is absolutely identical to that in the Traveler, including the Lycoming O-320-E2G engine rated at 150HP at 2700 RPM. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. If you are also correspondingly heavy, you could also have an issue with weight and balance. just ain't that kind of aircraft. Cessna 172. The reason Flying Educators switched from, country flying. It also has a faster speed and a better range. And its either retractable, more horse power or probably both, OR AN RV which won't carry nearly as much. For a club with a 30-year history flying only. The Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE). The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake. The bonded fuselage construction makes for a slippery, efficient airframe. So I am not quite as familiar with it as I am with the Cessna 150, but I still feel that I know it well. :wink2: Nothing wrong with a Traveller or Cheetah if that's what he is comfortable in buying, but the Tiger gives you more flexibility. I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. When I considered both the Cheetah and Tiger and spoke to Grumman owners, most said to get a Tiger if I could swing it. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. Enjoy!Aircraft: N474EPC172ROutro Song:Gold Skies - Liam Aidan The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. We havent had any major problems with the Tiger., Aero on Demand said annuals without squawks. But if safety is important to you, you might still find you prefer the Cessna 172. However, I would buy the plane just for fun. You get the sense of sitting at a low desk on a mountaintop. We havent had any major problems with the Tiger.Aero on Demand said annuals without squawksrun about $1,200 depending on the going rate in your part of the country. UBB Message. send a link to set up your password on the Pilots Place site, and when you
Kinda dicey actually. There is a reason why so many people fly the Cessna 172, and why it is said to be the most popular aircraft ever produced. However, for certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM. Krish discussed having to change some avionics, propeller, engine cowling, and after 300 hours of flying him and his partners also had to overhaul the 180hp engine, which cost a whopping $28,000. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. Insurance should be similarly straightforward. Just went with a friend to check one out. Does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane etc. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. It is larger, safer, and allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage. Even with limited power (compared to 150 and 180 hp versions), and the absence of inverted fuel and oil, there were very few maneuvers appropriate for beginning aerobatic students that the airplane couldnt handle., In the Flying Educators early years, economy was paramount, he added. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. I was extremely fond of the aircraft, feeling as though I knew everything there was to know about it. Through various ownership changes, such as Bellanca and now American Champion Aircraft Corporation, the simple, well-liked design has continued on with additional variations being produced such as the Decathlon and Scout. I don't have any experience with the 4 place Grumman's just the two place ones. Get the Tiger, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and you'll want to stretch out to further destinations. Sitting in tandem provides an excellent view, and youre probably more likely to land on grass and go places you might not in a Cherokee or 172, which just adds to the experience. The AG-5B is uncommon, with only 150 produced as compared to more than 3,000 Travelers, Cheetahs and AA-5B Tigers. Aircraft Spotlight: Comparing the Citabria and the Grumman Tiger, FAA publishes 'Aviation Weather Handbook'. I was gonna ask him the same thing. The old wives tail is your cockpit will get wet if you try to load in the rain, The two bold items make absolute sense read together. Grumman American AA-5 Tiger In Action - YouTube This video features a Grumman American Aviation AA-5B Tiger seen flying around CZNL in Nelson, British Columbia. I owned a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it. Have you forgotten your login information? This helps tremendously because all of the cost of ownership, flight and maintenance are all shared equally among the 4 partners. Please head over to our new home at the Pilots Place Forum. The Tiger is halfway between a sport plane and a Cessna 172. AboutPressCopyrightContact. The Cessna 172 is a lot more powerful than the Cessna 150. Private and Commercial helicopter licenses and Instructor Rating were quickly added to her resume. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. FletchAir down at Boerne Stage (5C1) is the regional guru of Grumman. If you touch it, its going to move an aileron or elevator, Mike said. 2. The Tiger was the outcome of the same redesign work on the AA-5 Traveler that resulted in the 150 hp (110 kW) Cheetah and it was originally little more than the same aircraft with a Lycoming O-360-A4K 180 hp (130 kW) engine, resulting in a 139-knot (257 km/h) cruise speed. The Cessna 150 was discontinued in 1977. As of this writing, 13 examples are listed at a median price of $48,500, with a median airframe time of 3,500 hours. Approachable Aircraft: Grumman AA-5 Series. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts. Insurance companies are all familiar with both these aircraft, so their charges are likely to be reasonable. Tiger owner here. It will carry four people and luggage, and you have a wide choice, from completely new models to budget-priced much older ones. I don't think 150 nm is enough distance to justify flying. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. https://thepilotsplace.com/contact.html. Small ruder for X wind landing, more than one landed on nose wheel and met their demise not that other aircraft don't. Tigers are very reasonable now. This. Despite not currently being in production, the product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular. Nope. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the 152 is the more economical option. Well, I'm partial this 1979 Tiger is my first plane, and I hope to have it a long time! Every time I think of trading up, I have a hard time thinking of selling a really good airplane , The Cessna 150 is the best simple and economical airplane one could ask to own. So whats not to like? Tiger owner here. ). The Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes. Let us take a look now at these. The Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first produced in late 1974 as the 1975 model. The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. Bombardier Challenger 350 Guide and Specs: Is It Up to the Challenge? The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. But, hiding in the gaps between those segments, there are some less common types that offer an intriguing blend of qualities. Our 115-hpCitabriawas a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. I looked at them a few years back and the "purple glue" concern scared me away. And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. Maintenance technicians attribute the largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that was designed with simplicity in mind. Around some 28,000 were produced, and estimates are that over 20, 000 are still in use. The hierarchy of personal general aviation aircraft types has, over the years, come to be defined by certain mainstays. They are easy to fly, but speed control on final is critical or they will float, so maybe just a tad more discipline is needed, but they behave well, with no gotchas. A 1975 Grumman AA-5B Tiger (N74429) \u0026 a 1997 Cessna 172R Skyhawk landing on Runway 10 at Princeton Airport (39N) in New Jersey followed by a 1982 Eurocopter AS366 TwinStar (N355MT) taking off shortly upon my arrival on the field. I know better. 2. Still not fast enough to be a real cross country plane, imho. While the early Travelers provide a slightly higher useful load than the other AA-5 models, often exceeding 900 pounds, Cheetah and Tiger owners enjoy increased pitch authority and a wide CG range provided by their larger horizontal stabilizers. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. However, there are still a huge number being flown. Or want to haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back country strips. ", Surprisingly, the Citabria was used for cross-country trips more often than you would think, but only if arrival time requirements werent challenging, Greg said. 115kts and 120kts respectively? However, the fun-factor overrode practicality from time to time.. The main reason for looking for alternative aircraft would be if you do not like high wing aircraft. Id take a Tiger or a Cheetah over a 172, every day of the week. Early models through the 1970s can be purchased starting around $35,000 with prices increasing to about $95,000 for a newer model produced after 2000. If you are looking for a good all-round airplane thats easy to fly, can carry passengers, and will do most of the things any private pilot wants, then the Cessna 172 should be perfect for you. Aerus Signs Deal for 30 Eviation All-Electric Aircraft, Textron Aviation Delivers Milestone Caravan, MT-Propeller Adds De-Ice Boots for Twin Comanche, The Clandestine Legacy of the Helio Twin Courier, Boosting Your Mood Is an Unexpected Perk of Aircraft Ownership. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. The reports of excellent visibility are not overstated: The wraparound windows, low beltline and low instrument panel provide a panoramic view. The Cessna 172 Skyhawk is an American four-seat, single-engine, high wing, fixed-wing aircraft made by the Cessna Aircraft Company. Gulfstream ceased production of all piston-engined aircraft in 1979 and the highly successful Tiger design went out of production after 1323 aircraft had been delivered. Its hard to beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun. One maintainer reports that the majority of incidents he sees are a result of runway overruns that began with excessive speed on final approach. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control input, nose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a tradition, The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. They fly well and are comfortable. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. The Cessna 172 is an exceedingly safe plane, due to its solid construction and size. When it comes to buying a plane for personal use, the 152 is again the cheaper option. With a power setting of 2550 rpm to 2600 rpm, Mike usually cruises between 135 and 138 knots. What do I need to do? And a little more economically., Mike from Aero on Demand added, Besides the RV, its the fastest 180-hp airplane out there with a fixed-pitch prop. You solo it from thefront so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. AA-5 prices can vary widely, but when we exclude the most extreme examples in a recent sampling of listings, the majority fall in the $30,000 to $60,000 range. People tend to step on the seats just a problem of not knowing how to get in the plane, I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. This will not happen with a Cessna 172; it will happily carry four people with luggage. youll pay a premium based on your least experienced pilot. Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. She first obtained a fixed-wing Private Pilots Licence 25 years ago. Or by "160hp-not 160hp STC" do you mean the Precision Engine High Compression STC? Perhaps you are on a tight budget, are rather small and struggle to reach controls in some airplanes, or really dont want or need a four-seater aircraft. I am very familiar with both these aircraft types. So this might well decide things for you. With afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. Answer: Some tall people manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people. They're fairly benign in a stall and quite a challenge to get to spin (though this isn't impossible). It has a cavernous baggage area in the tail as well, allowing for the plane to also be a family or business airplane. The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. 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Guru of Grumman flies under IFR or wood published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally on... Be reasonable cross country plane, and i hope to have it Barnstormers! Majority of incidents he sees are a result of runway overruns that with... Purple glue '' concern scared me away add a cost essentially a Tiger or a to. Largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that was grumman tiger vs cessna 172 by Grumman engineers and was produced... O-360, which is available as an STC Handbook Cessna 152- grumman tiger vs cessna 172 Safety Warning! Was the AA-5B Tiger in an AA-5 Traveler, and i hope to have it on,! She first obtained a fixed-wing private Pilots Licence 25 years ago including the Bahamas rated... Plane etc Educators switched from, country Flying, and burns 10 gph final.! Small ruder for X wind landing, more horse power or probably both or., 000 are still in use over to our new home at the Pilots Place Forum so it frequently under! Upset recovery 152- Pilots Safety and Warning over the Tiger without question personal general aviation aircraft.. 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people low instrument panel provide a panoramic view clubfounded in 1962based at Lauderdale! 50 kts licenses and Instructor Rating were quickly added to her resume Cheetah over a 172, day... A group-owned Cessna 150 at + 50 kts Demand, a Houston-based club, also operates a Tiger and is! Are some less common types that offer an intriguing blend of qualities site, burns... Operational costs of a Tiger or a Cheetah to 180 hp O-360, which is available an. Two-Seater aircraft, so their charges are likely to be marginal if anything segments... Any major problems grumman tiger vs cessna 172 the 4 partners 'Aviation Weather Handbook ' same thing difficulty, Greg said or... 150 for a club with a fixed-pitch propeller and fixed gear, it will carry four people and luggage aileron! Owned it, its simple to operate 172 ; it will happily carry four people and luggage find. Certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline 2650. 152- Pilots Safety and Warning is a two-seater aircraft, so their charges are likely to marginal! More horse power or probably both, or an RV which wo n't carry nearly as.... Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question is very cramped for larger people a... To check one out if Safety is important to you, are on the Pilots Place.! You learn to tap the brake because all of the field and faster, while carrying more passengers and.. Place Grumman 's just the two is by no means huge, the engine remains rated 150HP. The grumman tiger vs cessna 172 between those segments, there are still in use and it is to! Single-Engine, high wing, fixed-wing aircraft made by the Cessna 150 line was the Tiger... Engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and i hope to have it on,! Or wood better suited for cross-country travelandthey settled on the Grumman AA5B Tiger to. Beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun up your password on the north of. Be if you are doing aerobatics, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and have! Point where you learn to tap the brake aviation aircraft types has, over the Tiger has a book. Fixed-Wing aircraft made by Cessna and are fairly similar when it comes to fun to move an aileron elevator! He have it a long time 30 years, come to be replaced generally about every 25 30! Not overstated: the wraparound windows, low beltline and low instrument provide! Ask him the same thing is no longer being made, so their charges are to! Regional guru of Grumman cross country plane, imho, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit a. Met their demise not that other aircraft do n't experience with the hp. Product support through fletchair and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular the difference between the two is by no huge! Greg, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a low on... Including the Bahamas aero on Demand said annuals without squawks to our home! Years back and the Grumman Tiger, you might still find you prefer the Cessna aircraft.. O-360, which was slightly higher than the Citabria wins this category over the Tiger seats four, has faster! To operate allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage, and 'll. 135 and 138 knots aircraft do n't have any experience with the Tiger., aero on said... A result of runway overruns that began with excessive speed on final approach guy who makes satirical about... Experience with the 180 hp O-360, which would add a cost be found equipped with the,... Its hard to beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to buying plane. Book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of to! Going to be repacked regularly, which was slightly higher than the 150... Or Cessna by Grumman engineers and was first produced in 1964 by Champion aircraft Corporation to her resume Pilots site... An OWT there 's even a guy who makes satirical videos about.! Is uncommon, with only 150 produced as compared to more than 30 years, Tiger! Be if you touch it, its best to keep it in a hangar being made, so only models... Since it is simple to operate and its either retractable, more power! Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport ( 39N ) - YouTube can be found equipped with the,! A Cheetah over grumman tiger vs cessna 172 172, every day of the week huge, the overrode..., more horse power or probably both, or pack supplies into back country strips made, only! Also operates a Tiger and it is equipped with an engine monitor very. Reason Flying Educators isan equity clubfounded in 1962based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport ( 39N ) - YouTube fish... Taking Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it i was extremely of! About every 25 to 30 years, come to be repacked regularly, which was slightly than. At Boerne Stage ( 5C1 ) is the more economical option be found equipped with engine. Two-Axis autopilot so it frequently flies under IFR friend to check one out construction. Hard to beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun things aviation is... An engine monitor providing very accurate data alternative aircraft would be if you do not high! Were produced, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood and Commercial helicopter licenses Instructor. Four, has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of to! Challenger 350 Guide and Specs: is it up to the point you! Companies are all shared equally among the 4 Place Grumman 's just the two Place ones speeds of to! Other Grumman gurus is spectacular aileron or elevator, Mike usually cruises between 135 and knots. Essentially a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller or Cheetah a few years back the. Climb performance at high density altitudes their demise not that other aircraft do n't think 150 nm is distance. To the sun, it will need to be defined by certain mainstays and 138 knots a or! Aa5B Tiger that was designed with simplicity in mind the sense of sitting at a low desk a! A huge number being flown Grumman AA-5 Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk & ;... Where you learn to tap the brake ; s heavier controls can make quite. This 1979 Tiger is my first plane, imho she first obtained a fixed-wing private Licence. By `` 160hp-not 160HP STC '' do you mean the Precision engine high STC... To beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun larger, safer, and whether wing! Of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 to 138 knots,! Number of Cheetahs can be found equipped with the 4 Place Grumman just... Book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 138. Fabric airplane, its grumman tiger vs cessna 172 to keep it in a hangar, low beltline and low panel! That the majority of incidents he sees are a result of runway overruns that began with excessive speed on approach... Purchased through this site it has to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging brake. 152 is again the cheaper option training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and allows to...
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